tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8742841316953990337.post6313224878553396698..comments2023-10-17T07:59:07.232-07:00Comments on words for eyes: The culture that surrounds religion To clarify where I'm coming frommeghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03069483607064131496noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8742841316953990337.post-11478946074439424442009-07-22T15:21:18.219-07:002009-07-22T15:21:18.219-07:00Hey, thanks for talking about this. I love that pe...Hey, thanks for talking about this. I love that people will look at it and separate God from the culture. xostephyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10047873385595074389noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8742841316953990337.post-14711771678870375502009-07-12T18:50:02.110-07:002009-07-12T18:50:02.110-07:00In my 30-something years of Christianity, I’ve see...In my 30-something years of Christianity, I’ve seen changes, but I think those changes were defined more by the denominations I’ve attended.<br /><br />At one point in my life, I stepped back from the “Sunday morning” ritual of “having” to go to church. I did this because I felt dissatisfied with “Church.” Some call this burnout. But I’m not so sure. I was tired of hearing the same shallow sermons that neither spurred me on to good deeds nor motivated my pursuit of God. The relationships can be just as shallow. It’s sad that relationships among Christians continue only if you’re attending the same Church. Once you leave, the relationships are nil. <br /><br />When I decided to take my sabbatical, from church not God, that’s when I began to hear my heart, my thoughts and to be honest with myself-with God about what Church meant or didn’t mean to me. It gave me time to revisit why I thought the way I did. <br /><br />When I stepped out of the American Christian culture, I began to see my fellow brothers and sister in a different light. I remember thinking “if that is what Christians look like, no wonder people are not breaking down the doors to get in.” Sad. Honestly, I felt embarrassed for Christians.<br /><br />Christianity, in part, has become a program and within that a serious of programs. Not that I’m saying programs are bad in and of themselves; however, I think real Christianity becomes lost in those agendas. <br /><br />To fully answer the question about the American Christian culture I think one has to look back into history. When did Church become a one man in the pulpit? What happened to the five-fold ministry of pastor, teacher, prophet, apostle, and healer? How did serving God become a Sunday morning event shaped in the confines of a Church building?<br /><br />How did we stray so far from the original idea of the Body of Christ being the Church, looking after widows and orphans, feeding the hungry, healing the sick, raising the dead, and being a genuine community of believers in which brotherly love, kindness, and passion for Christ swells in one’s heart to were we become a beacon of light and hope for the hurting world? <br /><br />On symbols, which define Christians, are they wrong? No. Is belonging to a Church wrong? No. Is talking the talk wrong? No, unless those words are not backed by true faith based action. Most groups have some type of symbol that represents them. I think that is part of humanity. I don’t think that we can answer the question of “how should we look, sound, and act,” until we realize that American Christians have white washed the gospel of Christ and find the root to how we got where we are today.<br /><br />I think of scripture that states, “come out and be separate,” “put off the old and put on the new,” “Do not be conformed to the pattern of this world,” etc. We are to be different. I think that we’ve cultur-ized the simplistic message of the Gospel. We’ve lost it in denominational splits, Church politics, and programs. <br /><br />The Church needs to get back to her first love-Christ, restructure what she is to look, sound, and act like, which I think would be like Christ Jesus. It is easy for Christians to get lost in the Christian-ese of their faith and lose sight of the bigger picture. <br /><br />I don’t think one can ever over use faith, but I certainly do think they can miss-appropriate faith. They put faith in faith rather then faith in God. I’m glad you started this blog. I think these are questions that people of my generation are uneasy about asking, let alone discussing. But it needs discussing. The Church is changing, more so the people are changing, but the Gospel will never change, cause God is unchangeable. <br /><br />A question to ask is, “who have we allowed to define us, Church or God? <br /><br />Thanks for letting me share-DianeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8742841316953990337.post-64180692089564241012009-07-12T16:57:48.858-07:002009-07-12T16:57:48.858-07:00(k.elizabeth)Katie - such a great point regarding ...(k.elizabeth)Katie - such a great point regarding the youth culture with in the american chrisitian community. I have had the same experience with friends being hurt or jaded by their experience in or around their youth group experience.<br /><br />one of the difficult and potentially harmful things about youth culture and religion is that the two are mostly at odds. There is either a lot of condemnation and judgment on the youth or a lot of games being played. Both not "what it's all about"<br /><br />Maybe (onefinemess) Andy French has a thing or two to say about this?meghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07237269256782422540noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8742841316953990337.post-74962459664649173882009-07-12T16:43:08.150-07:002009-07-12T16:43:08.150-07:00Okay, this was helpful. Thanks!
What stuck out t...Okay, this was helpful. Thanks! <br /><br />What stuck out to me is that my church has never had a youth group and it seems that this is very key to the modern Christian experience: the youth culture of a church and how it is constructed and made to dance. (Note: I'm not trying to sound negative or flippant right now with, um, "made to dance"...but, I guess, just the expectations of what it means to be A Youth in A Church). <br /><br />The experience of the youth group or culture or however the church organized the youth seems to have really impacted so many people I know. For many the experience really caused them to question a lot of things (which, for the record, I think you should always be doing anyway)...but in a hurt or jaded sort of way.k.w.https://www.blogger.com/profile/14599702892060697016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8742841316953990337.post-86925792479420741372009-07-12T12:38:56.161-07:002009-07-12T12:38:56.161-07:00Tucker - "Oh yeah, I was so there, but I'...Tucker - <i>"Oh yeah, I was so there, but I'm not anymore." Then you look at their lives and think, "Oh yes you are."</i><br /><br />this is what reeaaalllly makes me crazy. Exactly.meghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07237269256782422540noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8742841316953990337.post-29912115491108946422009-07-12T12:35:23.450-07:002009-07-12T12:35:23.450-07:00onefinemess - okay, so I just discovered I can mak...onefinemess - okay, so I just discovered I can make the whole window bigger but the comment portion doesn't grow...lame. I hate blogger to now.<br /><br />Serious stuff now. To be clear, this is the list of things that I grew up doing or being a part of, it wasn't what "we" do compared to what is perceived as doing. What I "do" now will be discussed later.<br /><br />I do agree that there is a sense in churches that people are there to be accepted by a group and feel a part of something and this can sometimes lead to lemmings jumping off proverbial cliffs. <br /><br /><br />Tucker - thanks for weighing in. I appreciate your insight and agree, obviously...hahameghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07237269256782422540noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8742841316953990337.post-46724178082057245252009-07-12T12:11:02.876-07:002009-07-12T12:11:02.876-07:00onefinemess - you can make the window bigger ya kn...onefinemess - you can make the window bigger ya know, why you hating on blogger?meghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07237269256782422540noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8742841316953990337.post-57571062803657491922009-07-11T19:48:20.242-07:002009-07-11T19:48:20.242-07:00I should be clear though. My thoughts on mainstrea...I should be clear though. My thoughts on mainstream Christian subculture (specifically American) are not meant to be particularly critical. There are many aspects of it I miss and some good things there. I also have to say that none of us can get away from some kind of subculture that we inhabit, that makes us feel good, that speaks our language, etc. I would say, however, that there are many aspects, maybe most, of the mainstream Christian subculture that do not have anything to do with following Christ.Tuckerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11561135235230975798noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8742841316953990337.post-50256849457618723582009-07-11T19:36:33.670-07:002009-07-11T19:36:33.670-07:00so... my conservative Baptist upbringing did not c...so... my conservative Baptist upbringing did not condone tongues, raising hands in worship, and a few other charismatic kinds of things, but my list is at least as long as yours.<br /><br />It's all true folks. Mainstream Christian culture is like Disneyland, a secret society complete with secret handshakes, a game show, the planet Dagobah with Yoda teaching the Force, and mainstream American culture all rolled into one big mishmash. It has its own language too.<br /><br />What I think would be interesting to know is what percentage of Christians would look at your list and say, "Oh yeah, I was so there, but I'm not anymore." Then you look at their lives and think, "Oh yes you are."<br /><br />Interestingly I also never used "bad" language (even in moments of passion). I still can't easily.Tuckerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11561135235230975798noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8742841316953990337.post-57484828716127901392009-07-11T18:09:42.446-07:002009-07-11T18:09:42.446-07:00It sounds a lot like the "age old" (at l...It sounds a lot like the "age old" (at least in the sense that I've had it with dozens of Christians over the years) discussion about what "you" (the Christian) do as compared to what "Christians" are perceived as doing.<br /><br />In general, almost all of the folks I've spoken to agree with what I perceive to be your general assessment of "Christian Culture" (along the lines of what the better of those blogs - the Stuff Christian Culture Likes one - the other one comes off as way to cheezy and gutless (although well written)): it's generally nothing like the teachings of Jesus or whatever, and more about culturalized behaviors.<br /><br />I've met people who admit to attending churches guilty of the various cringe inducing tactics documented on those blogs, and defending how they can thrive in that setting with various excuses, but I think it boils down to being comfortable among your own. People (...most people) like to be a part of something, they like to be around people they know agree with them so they don't have to be challenged (other than a speaker's "challenge" to do some spiritual thing which is in general not actually challenging but rather to be expected).<br /><br />Where am I going with this? Honestly I don't know, the blogger comment window is so damn small I can't see what I wrote in the previous paragraph.<br /><br />Maybe something like this: people are social animals, and the average intelligence of the behavior of a group is inversely proportional to the size of that group. So, while individual Christians may be well-meaning, throw enough of them together and they start bringing the stupid to town.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com